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Scales

purplez
Posts: 189
Quote:
ok im starting to get the logic but im struggling to relate it to anything.so 6th note of a g scale is E fair enough but when and why does that help me play music?

Put on a 4/4 drumbeat, play that scale against it, find and hear a groove going on that you like = play music.

Don't over think it, theory is useful good to know but can get in the way of just creating things.

Mad paradox eh!
Mad paradox indeed !!

i just found some backing tracks and played along to them in blues and dorian scales was frickin ace just jamming along for ages, must of been half decent cos the wife even complimented me WOW !!

I really appreciate the help guys, feel free to drop any more advice in here.

Muchos gracias
Marko1960
Posts: 3139
Time to start making some basslines, using the root, third, fifth and octave make a riff, a riff is a repetitive rhythm pattern, (check out ‘Crossroads’ by Cream, Jack Bruce was the Riffmeister…AND HE SANG TOO!). Keep your riff simple, use Blues progressions to turn your riff into a bassline, the 1, 4, 5 blues progression is used on Johnny B Goode, I'll explain. Write A, B, C, D, E, F, G on a sheet of paper, now above the letters, starting at the A, write 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. In this format, the 1,4,5 progression would give you, A, D and E, so you would play your riff in the key of A then the key of D then the key of E, listen to Johnny B Goode to get the idea.
Now move the numbers along so the 1 is above a different letter, D for instance, this will give a 1,4,5 progression of D, G and A, Get It? 1,5,6 is another progression, just experiment, and don't forget your metronome!
2nick3
Posts: 498
Small correction to what Marko has here (sorry….

Playing the 1, 4 and 5 (also noted in Roman numerals as I IV V) chords you are staying in the same key - A. Otherwise it's the 1 in the keys A, D and E.

Yes, with that progression you MIGHT be changing keys. But changing keys every measure would be some kind of crazy over the top Prog Rock that would make Yes, Pink Floyd and Emerson/Lake/Palmer all say “Whoa, dude, too much!”
Marko1960
Posts: 3139
Quote:
Small correction to what Marko has here (sorry….Playing the 1, 4 and 5 (also noted in Roman numerals as I IV V) chords you are staying in the same key - A. Otherwise it's the 1 in the keys A, D and E. Yes, with that progression you MIGHT be changing keys. But changing keys every measure would be some kind of crazy over the top Prog Rock that would make Yes, Pink Floyd and Emerson/Lake/Palmer all say “Whoa, dude, too much!”
You play a riff based on the root third fifth and octave of the scale, that's four notes, and you use three scales, A D and E in this case, that's three different keys of four notes
Guys i picked a song to try and learn based on this new knowledge.

The Coral, Put the sun back in our hearts.

I can hear a riff in there, i think i did E2 (12 fret) 1,3,4,5 Major scale. then upto C (8th fret) it feels like im restricted and that all the notes have to fall into a scale but how the hell am i meant to know what type of scale to play for every song ?

What i ended up doing felt like purely jamming along i will tab it out later and post it properly for yous, i know its not perfect but the majority of it seems right.

feeling a bit lost right now
Marko1960
Posts: 3139
Don't try to think of basslines as scales, I think we've over confused you. Knowing the scales and the notes in them and how they relate to chords is essential but you need to move on now to modes, triads, inversions etc. The thing with the bass is, when a guitarist is playing chords or doing lead licks they are pretty much mapped out for him, he's basically following the rules, the bassist on the other hand has to be inventive, he can keep it simple by using triads and playing riffs or be really adventurous and play complicated meandering lines, but to do this he still needs to know what notes are available to him within the piece of music that's being played, which is why you need to know your scales. Also, you don't need to stick to the root, third, fifth and octave when a major chord is being played, any note in the scale is available to you, you can even play minor while the guitar plays major, it's a bit of a minefield but you'll get it
2nick3
Posts: 498
And you can play notes that aren't in the right key, too. And sometimes they sound good.

I'm the “King of the Passing Tone” in my church praise band. I'm playing G on the 4th beat, the next note is A on the 1st? Slip that G# in there on the And of 4. Sounds good, “rounds the corner off” (my expression, I have no idea if there's a musical term for it), and gets me to the note I need to hit with a little momentum, and makes what I'm playing a little more noticeable in the mix (Acoustic guitar, electric guitar, and sometimes 2 keyboards).

Or, as Victor Wooten said:

If you miss the note you were going for, don't worry, you are never more than a step away from a “right note”! Therefore you can play the “right note” immediately after the the “wrong note” and resolve (or “save&rdquo the line successfully.
purplez
Posts: 189
Quote:
but how the hell am i meant to know what type of scale to play for every song

Learn one major scale you can shift it up or down the bass neck to be in any key.
Same with a minor scale.

Looking up guitar tabs/chords will often help with finding the right key to play for a song you like.
It is most often the first or the last chord to be played in a song.

simply put, someone says to you “this song is in A and it is a I IV V progression.”
so from that you know it is in A major and the key is A=(I) and so it follows D=(IV) E=(V) those being the 1st, 4th and fifth notes of A.

same person says "next song is a I vi IV V so as before but with vi= 6th note = F#(minor)

theory takes time to work into our minds…
finally play the song and just try to play along to it, some might work some will sound f terrible.
work on your ears.
2nick3
Posts: 498
So take Last Night by The Traveling Wilburys.
Tabs:
Verse
| - - - - - - - - | - - 2 - 5 - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - |
|*- - 2 - 5 - - - | 3 - - - - - - - | - - 2 - 5 - - - | 5 - 5 - - - - - *|
|*3 - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | 3 - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - *|
| - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - |

(formatting is messed up in the forum - copy it out to notepad and it will line up)

You're in C major, and the first measure is just a C major (the I - C, E, G). (A major chord is the root, third and fifth - you're just playing them as independent notes where the guitar is playing them together as a chord). The second measure is F major (the IV - F, A, C). The third measure is back to the C major (the I again), and the fourth is G major (the V - but just playing G here). So the chord pattern is I IV I V. Repeat a bunch of times as Tom Petty does.

I tend to use the root/third/fifth pattern, sometimes resolving back to the 3rd or up to the octave, a lot playing in the praise band at my church. It's simple, easy to play, and I just have to watch out for the minor chords, where I flat the 3rd (or use the 4th instead).

The chorus of the song is just as easy:
Tabs:
| - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - |
|*- - - - - - - - | 3 - 3 - 3 - - - | 2 - 2 - 2 - - - | - - - - - - - -*|
|*3 - 3 - 3 - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | 5 - 5 - 5 - - -*|
| - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - | - - - - - - - - |

The song is still in C major, and the chord pattern is I IV iii ii (C, F, E, D). The iii and ii are lower case because they are minor chords, but since you're just playing the root you don't care.

Now I just need to figure out the bridge and I can post the tab.

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